Looking for some input

[NewEnglandNinja]

Hi everyone,

I just joined motovlog and I've been thinking of doing a series of videos along the line of how to ride a motorcycle. I'm not talking about just getting moving and changing gears, there have been tons of videos on that. I wanna make a series for in-between just getting moving and being out on public roads. Some might call them "advanced riding techniques" but they really shouldn't be. In addition to that covering a few general information things. I just picture a bunch of people only watching M13's 2 riding videos and then buying an R6 and running into a tree or something. I also want to answer questions that people who want to ride bikes have but are afraid to ask, and things like that. Anyways, heres my list of things I'm planning to cover with some notes with each one saying the important parts I want to talk about, I plan on starting tomorrow morning Any additions or corrections or even just opinions are welcome. Thanks!!

(secondary camera position, may not actually use the footage)

NewEnglandNinja's Basic Rider Course

General Information
- go over all displays

- controls
--- how to apply, how to place hands

- where to put mirrors
--- right mirror behind you in your lane
--- left in left land

- chicken strips
--- what are they, show mine (my story)

- can drop off curbs
--- just show that you can go off curbs and not die

- always go through yellow lights
--- within reason

- push start motorcycle
--- drop on seat when you release the clutch
--- if possible get into second gear

- rpm range
--- know where you're power band is
--- 10-15% is over-rev

-Look where you want to go!!!!



Gears
- can miss second on the upshift, adjust gear lever
--- show adjustments

- Match gear for road conditions
---- keep in power band when in tight situations

- Don't smash your gear lever
--- you don't actually need to kick your gear lever

(secondary camera for all, within view of gear lever)



Clutch and Gears
- at stop light slip clutch a little bit if it won't downshift
--- if you forget to downshift or don't have time to, this will help you get down to first gear



Clutch
- wet clutch
--- explain why its okay to slip the clutch
--- use wet-saw comparison

- slipping clutch
--- explain why you want to
--- show how
--- tell how you do it all the time when you start from a stop

(within view of clutch)



Cornering
- counter steering (on bike, view of front tire)
--- show the front tire does turn right
--- why its better than just leaning
--- controlled highside

- tight turns/u turns (outside view)
--- shifting body weight on pegs
--- make turns less sharp/avoid dropping your bike

- avoidance (outside view)
--- brake and swerve, not brake or swerve
--- more on counter steering

- going into a corner way too fast
--- lean! lean! lean!


Braking
- lock up rear brake (swing arm)
--- show that its okay
--- what to do if it happens

- emergency braking (outside view)
--- how to do it
--- rear locks, leave it locked
--- front skids, let off the brake and reapply
--- front locks, hope you have insurance

- braking in a corner (outside view)
--- why not to do it
--- when it can be done safely


End
practice practice practice

 

[Friz]

I actually really like this idea.

If you think you can pull off doing all the bits and sections (correctly!) I think this would be awesome to watch!

 

[AZZ3R]

Yeah!, great idea sounds pretty well thought-out. will take some time to do the videos. Look forward to seeing them.

 

[gpzDave]

That sounds very good, it'll be interesting to see how they turn out.

But get ready for a lot of editing, you'll have quite a sizeable amount of footage to thin down after you've filmed.

 

[NewEnglandNinja]

But get ready for a lot of editing, you'll have quite a sizeable amount of footage to thin down after you've filmed.

haha yeah thats the part I'm not looking forward, luckily I'm in college, which means I have lots of free time

 

[Bloke]

Just noticed your mirror positioning, bit sub optimal for those of us who drive on the correct side of the road

Nice idea but just caveat the stuff as people do stupid things all the time

Actually... reading more your emergency braking technique is wrong. You should release and reapply, a locked brake is doing nothing, and you've simultaneously taken yourself from 3 brakes (engine, rear, front), to 1. You also need to cover what to do with the clutch and engine braking.

Are you sure that these are actual "advanced riding techniques" and not just "your opinion" ? It's fine either way but yeah not exactly as billed.

Interesting to see how it turns out though, given the amount of training you legally have to do over in the states you could argue any training is good training.

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[NewEnglandNinja]

Just noticed your mirror positioning, bit sub optimal for those of us who drive on the correct side of the road

haha indeed, I have a written version I've been updating since I posted this one and that is included

Actually... reading more your emergency braking technique is wrong. You should release and reapply, a locked brake is doing nothing, and you've simultaneously taken yourself from 3 brakes (engine, rear, front), to 1. You also need to cover what to do with the clutch and engine braking.

I thought and have been thinking about the rear brake, and have been reading other's opinions and those which the MSF offers. The consensus seems to be that if the rear wheel locks, to leave it locked, because if for whatever reason the back end steps out and you release the rear brake and the wheel starts spinning again you could high-side and crash anyways. And a locked tire does more than a free spinning tire As far as engine braking goes, the idea is that you can really only focus on braking, and just the front brake at that, and even if you do somehow manage to downshift while braking as hard as possible theres always the chance you could over-rev the engine when you let the clutch out and lock the rear wheel anyways. Also as engine braking only works well in the power band, you'd have to keep the revs up quite high (in the case of the 250 and most any sport bike) only increasing that chance. Those are the reasons I said to keep it locked. I will add tho, that you should pull in the clutch if you have the brain power to think of it.

Are you sure that these are actual "advanced riding techniques" and not just "your opinion" ? It's fine either way but yeah not exactly as billed.

Interesting to see how it turns out though, given the amount of training you legally have to do over in the states you could argue any training is good training.

To clear that up, I think they're things you should know before riding on a public way, but I think there are people riding who do treat them as "advanced riding techniques" and therefore optional riding techniques. What I did was sit down and think what I wanted my girlfriend to know or what I would want my kids to know before they went out on the streets.

And I agree with you 100%

edit: Also thanks for posting your concerns I do appreciate it

 

[gpzDave]

ABS is the best solution to this problem

But IMHO the best technique if the rear wheel locks:
-If you are still travelling in a straight line, release and re-apply (no risk of high side in a straight line)
-If the rear has started to 'slide out' and the wheel is now not aligned with the front, leave locked (large risk of high side)

However all of that is pretty much useless if you truly are doing an emergency stop because:
- It will all be over in seconds,
- You'll be braking as hard as possible and the rear will probably lock up (it will hardly have any contact patch on the road),
- Most likely you won't have the precence of mind to release it (or even notice it's locked).

But remember the FRONT BRAKE is what gets you stopped, although the rear can help to keep the bike steady.

I speak from experience, two months ago I had to do an emergency stop on an A road at 55mph on a bend, and the rear wheel locked up.

Also, you have to really screw things up to lock a front, but if you do then 9/10 you're going down!

 

[AZZ3R]

from 3 brakes (engine, rear, front), to 1. You also need to cover what to do with the clutch and engine braking

I always thought it was Front, Rear and just keep the clutch held in with regards to emergancy braking.

I'd never touch my rear brake first.

Heres a good video of it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZJzlOcnLUM[/youtube]

He just pulls the clutch in and uses the brakes which I thought is he case with emergancy stops I don't think you would have time to gear down while braking hard.?

 

[Friz]

You're supposed to use both brakes, front one first with the clutch out. No time to worry about not stopping the engine in an emergaency. Plus engine brake helps too.

Stall the bike, as long as you're ok its cool.

That's what they teach for mod 1 in england and in the car test.

 

[gpzDave]

Stall the bike, as long as you're ok its cool.

Agreed, if you're in a genuine emergency situation you won't care if it's stalled, you'll just be glad to be alive! Although it is good to pull the clutch in (Edit/Clarification: immediately before you stop) if you have time.

 

[Bloke]

You're not meant to touch the clutch. no time, plus it maximises your engine braking. (which is why it deserves a mention, as instinct is to pull the clutch in).

So throttle off completely, front then apply a tiny amount of back, if it locks release and re apply. If you don't do this on your mod 1 it's a black mark, may even be a fail as you're no longer in control of your motorbike.

If you're swerving, screw braking hard at all, throttle off and dodge, then brake the problems with broken arms on the mod 1 was all down to people swerving with the brakes hard on.

Then of course, it's get the hell off of the road before an artic crushes you from behind.

I'd dispute always going through amber too, you should be planning ahead. Amber in the uk means stop if possible.

Providing you've planned ahead, when you do your mirror checks before applying the brakes you'll be able to judge if the car behind you is not slowing or too close.


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[NewEnglandNinja]

I'm curious how does the licensing break down across the pond? I'm assuming it's graduated in some manner?

 

[Bloke]

Everyone must do:

Compulsary Basic Training aka CBT - typically 1 day riding 125cc (or less) motorbikes or scooters, quarter day classroom theory, quarter off road, swerving around cones etc then half day on road assessed riding in the guise of training.

A basic day of training to make sure you don't kill yourself straight away.

This allows you to ride with L plates on bikes no larger than 125cc and you're not allowed to carry pillions or ride on restricted roads (motorways, etc)

Has to be renewed every two years if you do no further tests.

Then... Regardless of category

Theory test and hazard perception - pretty much what it says. A test to make sure you're not oblivious to hazards and that you know things like stopping distances, road signs etc...

now come choices.

A, A1 or A2 licence (I've neglected the entire 50cc cat P licence you can get with just the cbt and a car licence).

Under the age of 21 you can only do A1 or A2. No choice.

A1 - light motorcycle licence, you do the following modular tests on a bike of 125cc. Qualifies you to ride nothing larger than a 125cc bike for the length of your licence. It's pointless, you'd normally never want to do this.

A2 - Restricted motorcycle licence. You do the following modular tests on a bike not exceeding 33bhp. Qualifies you to ride up to 33bhp machines for 2 years after which you can ride anything (you end up having a full A licence) This is typically done on a 125cc machine also.

A - Full motorcycle licence. Available only if you're over 21 and do the following modular tests on a bike with a power rating that exceeds 33bhp. You can then ride anything you want, right after test day. This is commonly called direct access or DAS. The test is typically taken on a 500cc machine though 600s are becoming more common.

An A2 licence holder who reaches 21 before his two year period is up may retake his test again on a larger machine, this is known as Accelerated Access.

The tests are the same regardless of category.

Module 1 - off road manouvering - manual handling, u turn, slalom, figure of 8, slow control, emergency brake, swerve avoidance aka the brake and swerve test. You are also asked your 1 show me (do the maintenance check) and 1 tell me (how would you do the check) question here along with a question relating to riding with a pillion.

Module 2 - 30 to 40 minute observed assessed road ride.

The above is just the exams and licence categories... What I've missed out are the training days you'd normally do before your tests. It'd be illegal to turn up on your own r6 for example to do your full test, unless you're under the instruction of a qualified instructor.

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[AZZ3R]

If you don't do this on your mod 1 it's a black mark,

Istant fail if you skid/ lock up the rear

as you're no longer in control of your motorbike.

Sumed it up here ^

There is a way of stopping your front brake while closing the throttle I was tought it on my Mod 1 & 2.

count your fingers (hopfully all 4 are there) and it's your index finger which pulls it in then 2nd, 3rd & 4th as your pulling with each finger your last 2 should struggle to reach so you twist your wrist away from you, thus (your thumb acting as a throttle stop.)

 

[AZZ3R]

People that want to get into biking over here when you explain this to them they often think it's a waste of money and time and too complicated to understand and do.

but with regards to car licence its alot more straight forward.

Theory
Lesson < Optional
Test

Licence.

Bike

CBT
Theory
Mod 1 - } DAS would come here if over 21 and u would do both parts in 1 day
Mod 2 - }

Licence.


I read somewhere that MCN riders went over to USA to take the MSF course to check how easy it was to get a 600 or 1000 over there.

They summed it up by pretty much saying it was easier than a CBT which they took the week before for comparison reasons.

 

[Bloke]

Aye thought as much, I locked up on my test but released and re-applied he seemed happy enough.

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[Bloke]

Re: Re: Looking for some input

Mod 1 - } DAS would come here if over 21 and u would do both parts in 1 day

Most schools won't recommend this for DAS as if you fail a mod 1 it's £10, however you can't do mod 2 until you've got your mod 1 pass so you'd lose the £80 (or whatever it is now) mod 2 test fee as well.

Now they tend to space them out by 7 days so you have time to cancel your mod 2 and get a refund. Or rather they have time to change the name on the booking to someone else and you reschedule with the school

Mine was DAS (it just refers to whether you had/have a 2 year restriction or not really) done over a 9 month period long weekend, mod1... 8 month gap... Long weekend, mod2


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[AZZ3R]

Re: Re: Looking for some input

Mod 1 - } DAS would come here if over 21 and u would do both parts in 1 day

Mine was DAS (it just refers to whether you had/have a 2 year restriction or not really) done over a 9 month period long weekend, mod1... 8 month gap... Long weekend, mod2

I took my Mod 1 on 11th of May 2011
I took my Mod 2 on 13th of May 2011

When I was doing my test I was training with people taking there DAS I don't know why I was on a YBR125 yet there on Er5-n's, there was 3 of us.

I was 2nd and then they said right get ready where about to hit Mod 2 and I had to ride back to where I got the bike from and drop it off and book Mod 2 they came back and had passed both parts (well 1 failed)

9month gap! it was 2days before I had my full licence (Restricted) but I only have to wait now 17 months untill I'm fully un-restricted.

TBH I'd rather be restricted because when I turn 21 and someone has just passed there test and they look at me and say "i've just turned 21 yet paying £1000 insurance for a 600/1000" & I'll paying £300-400 insurance they will have wished they had taken it back when they where 17.

 

[Bloke]

Yup, wish I did mine earlier for that exact reason.

9 months as I was clearing my student overdraft at the same time as saving for my tests and training, plus stupid busy in work.

Currently paying 650ish insurance on my xj6s, fully comp, 1 year no claims. mates of mine are insuring blackbirds for 130!

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