Illegal to video the outside of a restaurant?

[MotoRick]

Today I was in my car and as I was going through the drive-thru of a fast food restaurant, the manager at the pickup window told me I was not allowed to record and to pull over and delete the video where he could see me doing it, or he would call the police.

I was shocked but after asking him if he was sure he wanted to make an issue out of it, I complied, sort of. I deleted a video for him, but not the one he was expecting. Anyway, I've done some checking on US law and Georgia law and I believe I am completely within my rights. I would appreciate any feedback. Facts, opinions or something helpful.

 

[Trinith]

Considering you're on private property he may have a case. From what I can tell generally the property owner can make some pretty odd rules and they're enforceable. Of course there's not really a whole lot they can do to you, I think the worst would be to have you effectively banned from the property..

 

[Neilisin]

That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. They are bullies when they make you believe you're in the wrong. We had similar issues with that here regarding surveillance is allowed to monitor us but we're not allowed to monitor the monitors! True irony. Next time get the police involved. At least you'll be educated that way.

 

[matt123red]

Maybe he was worried it was going to be a prank video, like when you chuck the milkshake back at the people in the windows. I dunno though

 

[Trinith]

Maybe he was worried it was going to be a prank video, like when you chuck the milkshake back at the people in the windows.

I couldn't come up with a reason why someone would say you can't video their establishment, but that makes -total- sense. As I typed that I thought of another reason: Easiest way to case a business and plan a robbery is to videotape it and then just study the recording..

 

[MotoRick]

Considering you're on private property he may have a case. From what I can tell generally the property owner can make some pretty odd rules and they're enforceable. Of course there's not really a whole lot they can do to you, I think the worst would be to have you effectively banned from the property..

That's what I was reading too. They can order you off their property and call the police if you don't go, but they can't confiscate the camera without a warrant. There seem to be different rules for video versus audio recording. Audio recording is much more strictly regulated than video. Georgia seems to only require the consent of one party to the audio portion if it's recorded in a publicly open place, even private property if it's frequented by the public like a fast food restaurant. But they can tell you to leave and you have to comply. Video is allowed in public even without consent. That's what I'm seeing anyway.

 

[kryten]

I would tell him to call the cops and I would warn him that if the cops said what I was doing was legal that I would upload the video to Youtube to show everyone what a tool he is.

 

[Trinith]

Considering you're on private property he may have a case. From what I can tell generally the property owner can make some pretty odd rules and they're enforceable. Of course there's not really a whole lot they can do to you, I think the worst would be to have you effectively banned from the property..

That's what I was reading too. They can order you off their property and call the police if you don't go, but they can't confiscate the camera without a warrant. There seem to be different rules for video versus audio recording. Audio recording is much more strictly regulated than video. Georgia seems to only require the consent of one party to the audio portion if it's recorded in a publicly open place, even private property if it's frequented by the public like a fast food restaurant. But they can tell you to leave and you have to comply. Video is allowed in public even without consent. That's what I'm seeing anyway.

Yea, everything I've ever seen or read basically states that you can take photos or video from public property or your own private property and no one can really do much. UNLESS you are taking photos for a commissioned piece and the person is identifiable. Professional photographers taking pictures in public areas will have to get the consent of people facing the camera before the photos can be printed for distribution and things like that.

Video is kind of a tricky issue though, it's essentially a new technology and there aren't many laws regarding it specifically, though 'they' do tend to lean towards wire tapping laws vs photography laws.

Tn and Tx both are single-party consent states, meaning I can record any and every phone call I make and I DO NOT have to tell anyone else. Ga is probably the same (most states are single-party.) That tends to help exonerate people when things actually go to court.

 

[TrailChaser]

So, when are you uploading the video. I wanna see it pretty bad now. Maybe after you upload it you can swing back in to give the asshat manager a copy of the url.

I would've had to have fun with the guy a little.(because I'm kinda a dickhead anyway) Got him nice and fired up and let him call the cops, then just leave after letting him know that the video will be online very soon.
It's not like the cops are gonna run 80mph with sirens blarring for some guy recording video in a eating establishment. If he called 911 on you he(or the restaurant) most likely would have been fined for misuse of emergency services. I'm sure if he were to call they'd take at least 10-15 minutes to get there if they even took the call seriously.

This reminds me of when I got fired and had the cops called on me.. I'll save that story for a motovlog tho.

 

[MotoRick]

So, when are you uploading the video. I wanna see it pretty bad now. Maybe after you upload it you can swing back in to give the asshat manager a copy of the url.

I would've had to have fun with the guy a little.(because I'm kinda a dickhead anyway) Got him nice and fired up and let him call the cops, then just leave after letting him know that the video will be online very soon.
It's not like the cops are gonna run 80mph with sirens blarring for some guy recording video in a eating establishment. If he called 911 on you he(or the restaurant) most likely would have been fined for misuse of emergency services. I'm sure if he were to call they'd take at least 10-15 minutes to get there if they even took the call seriously.

This reminds me of when I got fired and had the cops called on me.. I'll save that story for a motovlog tho.

I don't know when I can upload it. If I do upload it, I want to mask out the employees' faces first. A lawsuit is just not worth the hassle and expense even if I win. I've been using Window Live Movie Maker for editing and I'm pretty sure it can't mask faces. I also have Power Director but I have to read up on how to do it from there. Sorry for the tease. I promise I'll update when and if it's uploaded.

Yeah, I'd love to see a vlog about the time the cops were called on you!

 

[TrailChaser]

I use Vegas 11 pro, so if you have a way to sent it I can mask the faces and send it back. You could also just upload the video and make it private so that only people with the proper access can see it.

I'll do the story tomorrow if I can... Even tho it'll probably make me sound like a total asshole to everyone who watches it. :lol:

 

[Friz]

It's not like the cops are gonna run 80mph with sirens blarring for some guy recording video in a eating establishment. If he called 911 on you he(or the restaurant) most likely would have been fined for misuse of emergency services. I'm sure if he were to call they'd take at least 10-15 minutes to get there if they even took the call seriously.

This.

I really doubt anything would happen, but then I don't know what it's like in America.
Over here I think we're allowed to film almost anywhere.

 

[MotoRick]

It's not like the cops are gonna run 80mph with sirens blarring for some guy recording video in a eating establishment. If he called 911 on you he(or the restaurant) most likely would have been fined for misuse of emergency services. I'm sure if he were to call they'd take at least 10-15 minutes to get there if they even took the call seriously.

This.

I really doubt anything would happen, but then I don't know what it's like in America.
Over here I think we're allowed to film almost anywhere.

....what it's like in America.

It's very good overall. You should come visit if you ever get a chance. I'll take you to the shooting range and let you blast some targets with an assault rifle or a handgun. They even have fully automatic machine guns you can rent.

 

[matth1138]

1. There's a huge common misunderstanding of what "public" means. Being in or on a restaurants parking lot IS NOT public. That's the restaurant's property, not the public's. (Actually, it's whoever the restaurant's leasing the property from, but that's a minor detail, and in any case, the restaurant manager is the acting agent for the property, meaning they can do pretty much whatever they want in regards to providing access to the property, within certain federally mandated limits.) The important thing to remember is that there is actually very little true "public" space...roads and many parks can be considered public, but a shopping mall is the property of the development company, NOT the public.

2. I heard recently that YouTube has added a built in face-blur widget for social-rights activists and whatnot...here's the link: http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/18/yout ... blur-tech/

 

[MotoRick]

1. There's a huge common misunderstanding of what "public" means. Being in or on a restaurants parking lot IS NOT public. That's the restaurant's property, not the public's. (Actually, it's whoever the restaurant's leasing the property from, but that's a minor detail, and in any case, the restaurant manager is the acting agent for the property, meaning they can do pretty much whatever they want in regards to providing access to the property, within certain federally mandated limits.) The important thing to remember is that there is actually very little true "public" space...roads and many parks can be considered public, but a shopping mall is the property of the development company, NOT the public.

2. I heard recently that YouTube has added a built in face-blur widget for social-rights activists and whatnot...here's the link: http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/18/yout ... blur-tech/

I won't get into the distinctions I read about "public property" and "public places", but there is a distinction that both impact on the legality. It's so confusing. More than once, I read, "consult with an attorney....".

 

[MotoRick]

2. I heard recently that YouTube has added a built in face-blur widget for social-rights activists and whatnot...here's the link: http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/18/yout ... blur-tech/

Many thanks for the tip! You're a cool dude, I don't care what everybody else says! :lol: (Just kidding!)

 

[TrailChaser]

I was always under the impression that if a place is open to the public(as in the public normally has free access during business hours) then it's considered public until/unless otherwise specified.

An example would be Walmart vs. Sams Club.. If you are ever caught shoplifting/destroying property/playing pranks ect you will be banned from walmart for life. If you are ever caught back in there again you will be charged with trespassing.(possibly arrested) They can't however charge anyone with trespassing until they have documented the banning of that person because it is an "open to the public" establishment.
Sams Club on the other hand(walmarts sister store for wholesale) requires a membership. If you are caught in there w/out proper membership they can call the police and have you charged with trespassing even on the first offence.(and if that happened you would probably have been caught doing something you weren't suppose to be doing and that would be an additional charge.)

Point being, All private places reserve the right to refuse you service or make you leave the property. But I really doubt they could do anything about the related incident since you are a person and you also have rights. Like if you were asked to leave some place because you wore a t-shirt that had profanity, they wouldn't be able to make you take it off or anything while you're in the process of leaving but still on their property.

This is all just off the top of my head. I'm in no way an attorney or even close. :|

 

[MotoRick]

From what I've read, I agree with your conclusions. I don't want to be banned from this restaurant though, so I'll play along.

I was always under the impression that if a place is open to the public(as in the public normally has free access during business hours) then it's considered public until/unless otherwise specified.

An example would be Walmart vs. Sams Club.. If you are ever caught shoplifting/destroying property/playing pranks ect you will be banned from walmart for life. If you are ever caught back in there again you will be charged with trespassing.(possibly arrested) They can't however charge anyone with trespassing until they have documented the banning of that person because it is an "open to the public" establishment.
Sams Club on the other hand(walmarts sister store for wholesale) requires a membership. If you are caught in there w/out proper membership they can call the police and have you charged with trespassing even on the first offence.(and if that happened you would probably have been caught doing something you weren't suppose to be doing and that would be an additional charge.)

Point being, All private places reserve the right to refuse you service or make you leave the property. But I really doubt they could do anything about the related incident since you are a person and you also have rights. Like if you were asked to leave some place because you wore a t-shirt that had profanity, they wouldn't be able to make you take it off or anything while you're in the process of leaving but still on their property.

This is all just off the top of my head. I'm in no way an attorney or even close. :|

 

[Trinith]

As someone who's worked more than a few years in restaurants I can tell you something very quickly. If the manager calls the police on you and tells them you're trespassing (as soon as he asks you to leave and you don't you're trespassing btw) they -will- show up within a few minutes, and you -will- be leaving. Whether you go with them in handcuffs or you leave under your own power is typically up to you and is decided based upon your actions, sometimes the reason for the phone call to the cops is enough to have them arrest you outright.

No, the police aren't going to come screaming in with the lights and sirens blowing, but they're not going to take half an hour to get there either. I've seen management call them because people tried to run out without paying (they were tackled by 4 cooks who were mostly my size...ouch,) I've seen them call the police because some dude was wandering around taking food off people's plates while they were in the bathroom, hell I've seen them called simply because someone was being a little too loud and wouldn't leave when asked. The first group was arrested for theft, the 2nd guy was actually tazed in the middle of the restaurant (that shit was HILARIOUS btw,) and the last guy was supposedly given a free ride back to his house in the patrol car.

As for the banning comments above, I've seen people get escorted off property or arrested for criminal trespass across 3 different restaurants. I can tell you for a fact that none of the people had ever been 'banned' from the establishment and the police never mentioned anything along the lines of "we can't charge them because you don't have documentation of them being banned previously." I've also never heard any of this 'first offense' stuff either.

What it all really comes down to is simple: If you're on restaurant property (that includes the parking lot) then you have to follow the rules set forth by management unless those rules are unlawful. They are well within their rights to tell you what you cannot do on their property, and you're almost never within your rights to ignore them.

Though I should mention that all the above experience took place in Texas, there's a chance that Ga cops have a little less power, but it would honestly surprise me.

 

[Trinith]

From what I've read, I agree with your conclusions. I don't want to be banned from this restaurant though, so I'll play along.

That's generally my attitude when someone in a position of authority of a piece of property tells me to stop doing something. Fighting back usually isn't worth the hassle and potential negative outcomes. Every now and then it's fun to really show your ass though.